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Jeep Street and Performance Do you like to go fast in your Jeep?

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  #16  
Old March 20th, 2013, 17:17
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kastein kastein is offline
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Re: AW-4 Shift Controller and LED Gear Indicator Mod

Kinda curious why you didn't go tiptronic or use a rotary switch, it's almost trivial to do. I built one with a 4 position rotary switch, a toggle switch, and a couple relays that made it so I could just select a gear with the knob, select auto vs manumatic with the toggle, etc.
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  #17  
Old March 20th, 2013, 19:02
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kastein kastein is offline
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Re: AW-4 Shift Controller and LED Gear Indicator Mod

If I may, a half-assed apology. I did not even notice the RADesigns shifter in the initial post. It's an excellent product, don't get me wrong - in fact I've helped friends (including the last president) install them and was impressed by the quality.

What I was responding to was the pair of toggle switches which appear to be for selecting a gear. If you have an RADesigns shifter in the XJ, why do you need a pair of toggle switches? My point was that a rotary switch or custom tiptronic is better than a pair of toggle switches. So is a RADesigns setup (or Montana Fab for that matter, if you prefer that setup) - so why the pair of toggle switches?
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  #18  
Old March 21st, 2013, 02:23
CobraMarty CobraMarty is offline
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Re: AW-4 Shift Controller and LED Gear Indicator Mod

2 different apps.
One with the RAD shifter for those who want to 'row' thru the gears and no extra switches or switching required.
Other, with the switches and LED gear selector indicator in the vent panel for a cleaner look and less 'daily' need to switch thru the gears.
Don't like the rotary switch as a means of shifting and selecting gears.
Custom Tiptronic or paddle shifting for the XJ, that can be someone else's project.
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  #19  
Old March 21st, 2013, 06:57
Talyn Talyn is offline
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Re: AW-4 Shift Controller and LED Gear Indicator Mod

No CEL with it?

Does torque converter lock up only happen in 4th selection (auto)?

Last edited by Talyn; March 21st, 2013 at 07:12.
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  #20  
Old March 21st, 2013, 19:17
bpas328xi bpas328xi is offline
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Re: AW-4 Shift Controller and LED Gear Indicator Mod

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talyn View Post
No CEL with it?

Does torque converter lock up only happen in 4th selection (auto)?
No CEL.

And I'm not 100% sure on the torque converter. I'll have some time to play with it this weekend, so I might add another light just to monitor the torque converter lockup (independently of all the other shifter stuff) so I can see exactly what it's doing in manual mode.

I also want to see if manual mode works in the 1-2 shifter position because that means that engine braking would be possible with full manual control over the shifting. (there is no/minimal engine braking in D). Engine braking would probably make downshifting in manual mode more fun/useful.

And it looks like you can run an AB TCU in a XJ that originally had an AA TCU without any problems. WIN!


As for tiptronic... I might look into doing that for my XJ once I figure out how I would ideally like to do it since I have a Grand Cherokee steering wheel that has stereo control buttons on the back that I could probably remove to make room for paddle shifters. But Lead Foot is currently working on something to do with tiptronic...

Last edited by bpas328xi; March 21st, 2013 at 19:21.
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  #21  
Old March 21st, 2013, 19:39
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kastein kastein is offline
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Re: AW-4 Shift Controller and LED Gear Indicator Mod

AA vs AB is almost always just a minor, but compatible, firmware or design update. I can only think of two examples that aren't compatible or are entirely different parts, and neither is really relevant here.

Engine braking in 1-2 is due to (iirc, I haven't checked the AW4 section of my FSM in a while) the hydro circuit for the overrunning sprags being enabled with the gear shift in that position only. I looked into ways to enable it at will in 3/OD and couldn't find anything easy (i.e. did not require valvebody mods) - perhaps Fringe XVO could do something about that? I'm an EE not an ME, looking at the hydraulic flow diagrams tends to throw me for a loop.
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My yard looks like Sanford & Sons.
Current crapcan fleet: LS swapped bobbed 79 J10 Honcho, 4x4 auto 4.0 8.25 swapped metric ton 88 MJ
CTeunuch: Sometimes I really wonder if this sport makes you insane, or it just attracts the mentally unstable.
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  #22  
Old March 21st, 2013, 21:31
bpas328xi bpas328xi is offline
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Re: AW-4 Shift Controller and LED Gear Indicator Mod

Quote:
Originally Posted by kastein View Post
AA vs AB is almost always just a minor, but compatible, firmware or design update. I can only think of two examples that aren't compatible or are entirely different parts, and neither is really relevant here.

Engine braking in 1-2 is due to (iirc, I haven't checked the AW4 section of my FSM in a while) the hydro circuit for the overrunning sprags being enabled with the gear shift in that position only. I looked into ways to enable it at will in 3/OD and couldn't find anything easy (i.e. did not require valvebody mods) - perhaps Fringe XVO could do something about that? I'm an EE not an ME, looking at the hydraulic flow diagrams tends to throw me for a loop.
Yeah.. I already have a Transgo shift kit in the trans (probably irrelevant), but what I'm not sure about is whether or not the shift solenoids control the gear selection in the 1-2 position... My theory is that I'll be able to control the gear selection in 1-2 with my modded RAD shifter (so, theoretically be able to shift into 3rd gear) while having the OEM shift lever in the 1-2 position which would enable the engine braking in those 3 gears...

Iirc, 1-2 has an output on the NSS.. Gotta dig up my FSM when I get home tomorrow.. Who knows. Maybe it's engages engine braking electronically through the NSS.
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  #23  
Old March 21st, 2013, 21:33
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kastein kastein is offline
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Re: AW-4 Shift Controller and LED Gear Indicator Mod

No, you won't be able to. The mechanical shifter overrides the electronic shifter - I tested that sometime in '10 on my 98 and if it's in 1-2, you can only select 1st or 2nd electronically. Unless the transgo kit changes that.
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My yard looks like Sanford & Sons.
Current crapcan fleet: LS swapped bobbed 79 J10 Honcho, 4x4 auto 4.0 8.25 swapped metric ton 88 MJ
CTeunuch: Sometimes I really wonder if this sport makes you insane, or it just attracts the mentally unstable.
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  #24  
Old March 22nd, 2013, 05:57
Talyn Talyn is offline
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Re: AW-4 Shift Controller and LED Gear Indicator Mod

Where does one obtain one of these modded controllers?
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  #25  
Old March 22nd, 2013, 06:00
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R.DesJardin R.DesJardin is offline
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Re: AW-4 Shift Controller and LED Gear Indicator Mod

Quote:
Originally Posted by kastein View Post
No, you won't be able to. The mechanical shifter overrides the electronic shifter - I tested that sometime in '10 on my 98 and if it's in 1-2, you can only select 1st or 2nd electronically. Unless the transgo kit changes that.
Same in D you only can shift 1,2,3 and only have compression braking in 2,3. In OD you get all 4 gears but only 3,4 compression braking. This was as tested in my '93 XJ. Best way to overcome this is to incorporate electrical in the floor shifter.
Like this http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1096300
The TC should lock in 3rd or 4th, as I remember it does.
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  #26  
Old March 22nd, 2013, 06:23
bpas328xi bpas328xi is offline
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Re: AW-4 Shift Controller and LED Gear Indicator Mod

Quote:
Originally Posted by R.DesJardin View Post
Same in D you only can shift 1,2,3 and only have compression braking in 2,3. In OD you get all 4 gears but only 3,4 compression braking. This was as tested in my '93 XJ. Best way to overcome this is to incorporate electrical in the floor shifter.
Like this http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1096300
The TC should lock in 3rd or 4th, as I remember it does.
Hmmm.... Interesting. So all it's doing is engaging the torque converter? I might have to dig out my arduino and start playing with it..(to keep the tc from being engaged below a certain RPM in 1st @ low speed) And that shifter is making me :drool:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talyn View Post
Where does one obtain one of these modded controllers?
Nowhere yet.. Just playing with the idea at the moment. Unless you want my prototype.. LMAO.
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  #27  
Old March 22nd, 2013, 06:40
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R.DesJardin R.DesJardin is offline
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Re: AW-4 Shift Controller and LED Gear Indicator Mod

Quote:
Originally Posted by bpas328xi View Post
Hmmm.... Interesting. So all it's doing is engaging the torque converter? I might have to dig out my arduino and start playing with it..(to keep the tc from being engaged below a certain RPM in 1st @ low speed) And that shifter is making me :drool:

Nowhere yet.. Just playing with the idea at the moment. Unless you want my prototype.. LMAO.
The TC only locks in 3rd or 4th, this is the factory design. There is several sensors that input into the logic for TC lock, includes TPS, VSS, RPM some had H2O temp input so it won't lock up when cold. As TC lock seems to work, it unlocks when: you gas it, let off the gas, hit the brakes....
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  #28  
Old March 22nd, 2013, 06:50
bpas328xi bpas328xi is offline
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Re: AW-4 Shift Controller and LED Gear Indicator Mod

Quote:
Originally Posted by R.DesJardin View Post
The TC only locks in 3rd or 4th, this is the factory design. There is several sensors that input into the logic for TC lock, includes TPS, VSS, RPM some had H2O temp input so it won't lock up when cold. As TC lock seems to work, it unlocks when: you gas it, let off the gas, hit the brakes....
But it also locks in the 1-2 position on decel right? Sounds easy enough to duplicate with an arduino...
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  #29  
Old March 22nd, 2013, 06:52
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R.DesJardin R.DesJardin is offline
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Re: AW-4 Shift Controller and LED Gear Indicator Mod

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Originally Posted by bpas328xi View Post
But it also locks in the 1-2 position on decel right? Sounds easy enough to duplicate with an arduino...
Nope, that's why you need to move the lever to 1-2 for decel compression braking using the hydraulic system in the trans., If you can hold it in 1st electrically.
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  #30  
Old March 22nd, 2013, 06:53
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kastein kastein is offline
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Re: AW-4 Shift Controller and LED Gear Indicator Mod

No. overrunning sprag vs torque converter lockup is very different - if you lock the TQ in 1/2 you will only make it stutter and wear the lockup faster, it's not designed to handle low end torque or being stopped when it's engaged. If it's in good shape it'll stall the engine on you.

I'd have to check the hydro diagrams again but I don't think 3rd has engine braking, either...

edit: Talyn, I can post up a wiring diagram for the setup I put together for lobsterdmb if you want, it basically has full auto, full manual w/ input from the RADesigns shifter, and a torque lockup that I set up to only work when the brake lights are off, it'd be trivial to make it also only work in 3/OD to avoid lurching+tq damage. Fairly simple to add a gear indicator if you wanted to, I would use a 74LS148 priority encoder or diode logic plus some buffer/drivers, a 74LS47 or 74LS48, and a seven segment display... or a PIC/AVR microcontroller, or a basic PLD or PAL/GAL series programmable logic chip if that's how you swing. Rather than indicating 5 for OD+TQlock, my suggestion would be to use one of the decimal points as the lock indicator.

I should note - I am not selling this. Wiring diagram is free, build it yourself, use it with whatever manual shifter you want to buy or build.
__________________
My yard looks like Sanford & Sons.
Current crapcan fleet: LS swapped bobbed 79 J10 Honcho, 4x4 auto 4.0 8.25 swapped metric ton 88 MJ
CTeunuch: Sometimes I really wonder if this sport makes you insane, or it just attracts the mentally unstable.

Last edited by kastein; March 22nd, 2013 at 06:59.
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